00:19:49 Kevin Clark: I will have to leave in about 1 hr to go build 8'x8' raised garden beds 3' high...IN BETWEEN unusually rainy fall weather!
00:26:23 jonmeyer: Anyone have a reference for the second book that Tim mentioned?
00:26:45 Matt Segall: https://www.sunypress.edu/p-3682-process-and-analysis.aspx
00:26:55 jonmeyer: Thx
00:28:04 Matt Segall: ^ Tim’s Summary of Ch. 5
00:33:03 Douglas Tooley: Is perception of time, at the human level and lower, a 'semiotic' function?
00:47:40 Mikhail Epstein: Yury Lotman. Semiosphere.
00:49:12 Farzad Mahootian: Mikhail’s last point on God’s auto-communication through cosmic and material sign is very neoplatonc!
00:50:03 Mikhail Epstein: Vassily Nalimov. In the Labyrinths of Language
00:51:54 Mikhail Epstein: Mikhail Epstein. A Philosophy of the Possible: Modalities in Thought and Culture. Boston, Leiden: Brill Academic Publishers, 2019.
01:08:26 jonmeyer: The term information is frequently used as a concrete entity - yet the notion already presupposes concepts of imminence (“in”), forms, and processual activity(“ation”). What Whitehead (and also Bradley) does so beautifully is show how notions such as information are already high abstractions that can easily lead us into fallacies of misplaced concreteness. I like that George points out that information is a technology and not a science…
01:16:25 Lynn De Jonghe: When George Strawn finishes his paper, we would like to have a reference to it!
01:16:47 Farzad Mahootian: 1. isn’t capitalism an inevitable outcome of evolution via complex system dynamics and manipulation of information flows? and given 2. capitalism’s inherent instability (of “growth” economies), the fact that it causes instabilities which it then benefits from its (growth), then, 3. if 1 & 2 are true, is capitalism ever surmountable?
01:17:26 Gary Herstein: Theories will involve "recipes" because of the need for testability requires a robust method of constructing said test(s). However, I don't see it necessarily running the other way. One can literally prepare a food recipe w/o having a deep understanding of food preparation.
01:19:10 Gary Nelson: Can we ask Michael Heather to comment on the role of Heyting Logic, Category Theory and our discussion of non-Boolean logics
01:19:55 Gary Herstein: Alternatively, one can construct an effective computer program w/o having much (if any) underlying grasp of the theory of computability, or issues of complexity such as P<>NP? or PH.
01:20:02 Matt Segall: Right, Gary. So in the case of quantum physics, there are a baker’s dozen interpretations of what is being pulled out of the experimental oven!
01:21:00 michael Heather: The logic of potentiæ is just the free functor
01:25:22 Douglas Tooley: This may be too tangential, a question for George Strawn - Are you familiar with the work of Terrence Sejnowski and others combining 'technologist' AI and Neuroscience?
This is a quick summary of his most recent thinking:
By way of introduction I've heard Mr. Sejnowski, as I have Dr. Segall. I've just listened to your first two Gordian Knot sessions this morning.
01:25:38 Douglas Tooley: Speak in Telluride
01:27:13 Gary Herstein: Google labs has made some extravagant claims, but they've carefully avoided sharing any peer-reviewed evidence to substantiate their claims
01:28:06 Gary Herstein: QC essentially renders the P<>NP? puzzle moot, which also makes all forms of encryption formally ineffective.
01:28:13 Kevin Clark: LOTS here I do not understand yet...gotta go build 3D triadic raised beds w/ drainage 'context'!
01:34:07 John Buchanan: Love the Sorcerer’s Apprentice metaphor.
01:35:31 Anderson Weekes: Could Mikhail say a little bit about "modality as basis of historical development"? Eg, what is a quick outline of the proposed periodization?
01:38:35 Spyridon Koutroufinis: Question on p. 178 of Ch. 5: anticipatory systems "counteract the second-law of thermodynamics and maintain order through the minimization of outstanding parameters" Could you please explain what the "outstanding parameters" are and how they can be minimized?
01:38:37 Gary Herstein: (Actually, I don't believe Darwin ever used the term "survival of the fittest.")
01:38:54 Gary Herstein: (That might have been Thomas Huxley.)
01:39:03 jonmeyer: “Context denialism” is a somewhat less geeky way of saying “fallacy of misplaced concreteness”
01:39:58 Douglas Tooley: A corporation is a hybrid of the public and private, the public's portion is exactly the land it utilizes???
01:40:06 Monica DeRaspe-Bolles: And isn't it "survival of the fit"?
01:40:13 Gary Herstein: Context denialism in economics (and business specifically) translates into refusal to take "externalities" into account.
01:41:39 Gary Herstein: By the bye, "market system" is independent of "Capitalism." We've seen command system forms of capitalism (Nazi Germany, S. Korea under the military junta) and market system forms of Socialism (Hungary before the fall of the wall, Sweden.)
01:43:01 Gary Nelson: Structured Analysis and Design Technique (SADT) conceives functional block with input==>output subject to context (mechanism) and constraints (controls)
01:44:15 Gary Herstein: An ecology as a community of interpretation a la Peirce?
01:45:32 Matt Segall: Farzad, are you familiar with “social threefolding” developed by Rudolf Steiner? He’s a, erm, complicated figure, but his ideas about disentangling the political, economic, and cultural spheres is quite original and bypasses all the usual ideological positions while still incorporating insights from capitalism, socialism, and anarchism.
01:47:13 Gary Nelson: The IMF has recently done a report about subsidies to Fossil Fuel industries—about $6T in2021 as I recall. Nancy Reagan wisdom— just say no!
01:48:31 Farzad Mahootian: John Cobb’s symbiosis of American and Chinese Capitalism could be GREAT!
01:54:43 Gary Herstein: The "Beaver Colony" theory of time? (One dam thing after another.)
01:55:42 Farzad Mahootian: @Matt - I hadn’t and “bypasses all the usual ideological positions while still incorporating insights from capitalism, socialism, and anarchism.” sounds very promising. Thanks!
01:59:44 matt switzer: Contextualized by extensive mining no doubt!
02:03:13 Gary Herstein: Van Fraassen has argued that laws in physical science all come back to symmetry of some form. (Mathematically, this means that they are represented by Group Theoretic techniques.)
02:11:20 Matt Segall: which invites a conflation between “fit” as in fitting into a niche and “fit” as in “strong” etc
02:12:28 Matt Segall: oops, that above comment was meant for Gary H. not the whole group : )
02:13:30 jonmeyer: Bruno Latours Down to Earth is a super essay on the ecological crisis we face from an outlook that resonates from a process philosophy standpoint.
02:15:26 Gary Nelson: As I recall, Robert Rosen posits that Anticipation is present in all living entities.
02:15:50 jonmeyer: On Michael Heathers point. Whitehead (in Harvard Lectures as captured by Bell) writes `This comes down to problem of Inductive Logic… How can one fact be relevant to another fact which is not contained in t? Science collapses if you assume an independent atomic of facts. 2) You don't get out of the difficulty by introducing "probabilities". (3) you don't get out of the difficulty by saying "nobody doubts it." (4) no help to be got by basing your trust on past Experience.` — asserting there is only symmetry doesn’t get out of the difficulty either
02:17:12 Gary Nelson: I sent Matt a paper Amoebae Anticipate Periodic Events.
02:17:25 Douglas Tooley: Any single cell epistemology would be chemical, as would any plant epistemology?