Quotes & Sayings

We, and creation itself, actualize the possibilities of the God who sustains the world, towards becoming in the world in a fuller, more deeper way. - R.E. Slater

There is urgency in coming to see the world as a web of interrelated processes of which we are integral parts, so that all of our choices and actions have [consequential effects upon] the world around us. - Process Metaphysician Alfred North Whitehead

Kurt Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem says (i) all closed systems are unprovable within themselves and, that (ii) all open systems are rightly understood as incomplete. - R.E. Slater

The most true thing about you is what God has said to you in Christ, "You are My Beloved." - Tripp Fuller

The God among us is the God who refuses to be God without us, so great is God's Love. - Tripp Fuller

According to some Christian outlooks we were made for another world. Perhaps, rather, we were made for this world to recreate, reclaim, redeem, and renew unto God's future aspiration by the power of His Spirit. - R.E. Slater

Our eschatological ethos is to love. To stand with those who are oppressed. To stand against those who are oppressing. It is that simple. Love is our only calling and Christian Hope. - R.E. Slater

Secularization theory has been massively falsified. We don't live in an age of secularity. We live in an age of explosive, pervasive religiosity... an age of religious pluralism. - Peter L. Berger

Exploring the edge of life and faith in a post-everything world. - Todd Littleton

I don't need another reason to believe, your love is all around for me to see. – Anon

Thou art our need; and in giving us more of thyself thou givest us all. - Khalil Gibran, Prayer XXIII

Be careful what you pretend to be. You become what you pretend to be. - Kurt Vonnegut

Religious beliefs, far from being primary, are often shaped and adjusted by our social goals. - Jim Forest

We become who we are by what we believe and can justify. - R.E. Slater

People, even more than things, need to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed, and redeemed; never throw out anyone. – Anon

Certainly, God's love has made fools of us all. - R.E. Slater

An apocalyptic Christian faith doesn't wait for Jesus to come, but for Jesus to become in our midst. - R.E. Slater

Christian belief in God begins with the cross and resurrection of Jesus, not with rational apologetics. - Eberhard Jüngel, Jürgen Moltmann

Our knowledge of God is through the 'I-Thou' encounter, not in finding God at the end of a syllogism or argument. There is a grave danger in any Christian treatment of God as an object. The God of Jesus Christ and Scripture is irreducibly subject and never made as an object, a force, a power, or a principle that can be manipulated. - Emil Brunner

“Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh” means "I will be that who I have yet to become." - God (Ex 3.14) or, conversely, “I AM who I AM Becoming.”

Our job is to love others without stopping to inquire whether or not they are worthy. - Thomas Merton

The church is God's world-changing social experiment of bringing unlikes and differents to the Eucharist/Communion table to share life with one another as a new kind of family. When this happens, we show to the world what love, justice, peace, reconciliation, and life together is designed by God to be. The church is God's show-and-tell for the world to see how God wants us to live as a blended, global, polypluralistic family united with one will, by one Lord, and baptized by one Spirit. – Anon

The cross that is planted at the heart of the history of the world cannot be uprooted. - Jacques Ellul

The Unity in whose loving presence the universe unfolds is inside each person as a call to welcome the stranger, protect animals and the earth, respect the dignity of each person, think new thoughts, and help bring about ecological civilizations. - John Cobb & Farhan A. Shah

If you board the wrong train it is of no use running along the corridors of the train in the other direction. - Dietrich Bonhoeffer

God's justice is restorative rather than punitive; His discipline is merciful rather than punishing; His power is made perfect in weakness; and His grace is sufficient for all. – Anon

Our little [biblical] systems have their day; they have their day and cease to be. They are but broken lights of Thee, and Thou, O God art more than they. - Alfred Lord Tennyson

We can’t control God; God is uncontrollable. God can’t control us; God’s love is uncontrolling! - Thomas Jay Oord

Life in perspective but always in process... as we are relational beings in process to one another, so life events are in process in relation to each event... as God is to Self, is to world, is to us... like Father, like sons and daughters, like events... life in process yet always in perspective. - R.E. Slater

To promote societal transition to sustainable ways of living and a global society founded on a shared ethical framework which includes respect and care for the community of life, ecological integrity, universal human rights, respect for diversity, economic justice, democracy, and a culture of peace. - The Earth Charter Mission Statement

Christian humanism is the belief that human freedom, individual conscience, and unencumbered rational inquiry are compatible with the practice of Christianity or even intrinsic in its doctrine. It represents a philosophical union of Christian faith and classical humanist principles. - Scott Postma

It is never wise to have a self-appointed religious institution determine a nation's moral code. The opportunities for moral compromise and failure are high; the moral codes and creeds assuredly racist, discriminatory, or subjectively and religiously defined; and the pronouncement of inhumanitarian political objectives quite predictable. - R.E. Slater

God's love must both center and define the Christian faith and all religious or human faiths seeking human and ecological balance in worlds of subtraction, harm, tragedy, and evil. - R.E. Slater

In Whitehead’s process ontology, we can think of the experiential ground of reality as an eternal pulse whereby what is objectively public in one moment becomes subjectively prehended in the next, and whereby the subject that emerges from its feelings then perishes into public expression as an object (or “superject”) aiming for novelty. There is a rhythm of Being between object and subject, not an ontological division. This rhythm powers the creative growth of the universe from one occasion of experience to the next. This is the Whiteheadian mantra: “The many become one and are increased by one.” - Matthew Segall

Without Love there is no Truth. And True Truth is always Loving. There is no dichotomy between these terms but only seamless integration. This is the premier centering focus of a Processual Theology of Love. - R.E. Slater


Note: Generally I do not respond to commentary. I may read the comments but wish to reserve my time to write (or write from the comments I read). Instead, I'd like to see our community help one another and in the helping encourage and exhort each of us towards Christian love in Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior. - re slater

Thursday, October 9, 2014

10 Things Your Childhood Pastor Didn’t Tell You (But Should Have)

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1. The flavor of Christianity you grew up with isn’t the only flavor out there.
There are around 40,000 different Christian denominations all with their own particular nuances and ways of expressing the Christian message. I fear too many of us grow up thinking that our group is the one group who “gets it”, but with 40,000 different expressions of Christianity out there, chances are slim that you grew up in the one faith tradition who had it all correct. Each expression of Christianity has inherent strengths and weaknesses, all of which should be considered on the individual merits.
2. Visiting and exploring other Christian traditions is beneficial to your journey, not detrimental.
One of the most valuable things I learned in seminary had nothing to do with biblical languages or theology, but rather diversity. We were assigned to attend a worship service at a church we’d never otherwise go to, so I picked the most charismatic church I could find. I had expected to find a long list of reasons to make fun of them, but what I actually found was a group of loving and sincere people who radically changed my impression of charismatics. We must encourage exploration among Christian traditions.
3. The Bible is notoriously difficult to read and understand.
Growing up I was often taught that the Bible was the “user manual for life”, but could never figure out who would write a user manual that was so complicated and difficult to understand. Understanding and interpreting scripture is anything but easy– this is why most Christian traditions require professional clergy to have a minimum of a 3 year advanced seminary degree that covers things like ancient languages, hermeneutics, etc. Even then, competent scholars will often disagree! Had I been taught the truth that the Bible is difficult to read and interpret, I would have had more grace on both myself and others.
4. There’s no such thing as a “plain” or “straight forward” way of reading the Bible.
As if the Bible were not difficult enough to understand, we also have the problem of reading our own cultural ideas and values into the scriptures when we read them. As a result, it’s simply not possible to plainly read the Bible and walk away with a pure understanding of what it’s actually saying. This doesn’t mean we give up, but that we hold what we think it to be saying in sincere humility, knowing that we have a tendency to infer our own world on the ancient world.
5. The Bible actually does contradict itself– but that’s okay.
I think as Christians we’re often afraid to admit that the Bible does contradict itself, and that as a result, it’s not without error from a historic/factual standpoint. We’re afraid that if we admit to some of these things about the Bible the house of cards will collapse– but that’s not the case. In fact, some contradictions actually make the Bible more true instead of less, such as the different accounts of the Resurrection. The differing accounts actually show that there wasn’t an attempt by the disciples to “get their story straight” but instead is an authentic eye witness testimony on each account. We need not fear reality.
6. Jesus didn’t always agree with the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament).
Have some parts of the Old Testament that really don’t sit well with you? You’re in good company– Jesus seems to have felt the same way. In Mark 10 when Jesus is asked about the law, he prefaces his comments with “Moses only gave that to you because your hearts were hard”, which shows that the OT law wasn’t something perfect, but the opposite– a concession to sinful humanity. In other parts Jesus completely rejects some things such as the permissiveness of violence. Jesus tells his listeners: “You have heard it said an eye for an eye, but I tell you do not resist an evil person”. What his listeners would have heard was, “I know the Bible says that when we use violence it should be fair and limited, but I’m telling you that’s wrong– don’t use violence at all.”
So don’t worry if stuff like stoning people in the OT turns your stomach– Jesus felt the same way.
7. Jesus valued compassion and empathy over rule following.
Truth be told, Jesus wasn’t an “anything goes” kind of person but he also wasn’t a rigid rule follower. Instead, Jesus valued empathy and compassion over man-made rule following. Jesus was a rule-breaker with things like being a friend of gluttons (instead of following the book of Proverbs), and did good works instead of resting on the Sabbath (one of the things that got him killed). The Jesus of the New Testament seems to be someone who chooses the side of compassion when there is tension between rule following and loving others.
8. The end-times stuff was all made up less than 200 years ago.
I was almost 33 years old before I found out that other Christians didn’t believe in the modern end-times rapture garbage. Doom-and-gloom rapture/end times theology is not part of historic Christianity– it came from a man named John Nelson Darby who was just born in 1800. Now, just because something is “new” doesn’t mean it is wrong, but pastors should probably give full disclosure on this: the end times madness is new, not part of historic Christianity, and is unique to evangelical fundamentalism.
9. Jesus doesn’t care what political party you belong to.
While the American version of Jesus has been married to right-wing politics for the last 30 years, the real Jesus could probably give two-hoots which political party you belong to. In fact, my best guess would be that Jesus would invite you to abandon the politics of the American Empire altogether so that you might completely devote yourself to living as a kingdom building exile whose citizenship is elsewhere.
10. Doubt can make your faith stronger.
If there’s one thing I’ve learned in the last seven years of being in seminary it’s this: I have serious doubts. As a child I was taught that doubt was the enemy of faith, but as an adult I am finding it is actually an ally. The more I doubt some aspects of our Christian tradition, the more I find myself clinging to the Jesus in the New Testament because I become more convinced that he is my only hope– both for this life, and the next.

Kingdom Theology (Stay & Work) vs. Rapture Theology (Wait & Leave)

"If there was ever going to be a rapture (there won't be, but we can pretend for a minute)
this is how it would go: 'In the Old Testament, God consistently used those who were
willing to fight for their fellow man, even when it meant fighting with God himself.'" - Anon

"The desire of some Christians to be swept away while their fellow humans are
left behind to suffer is a complete repudiation of the way of Jesus." - Anon

"... Jesus came into the world to be the prototype of a new humanity,
to show us what it means to live out our human vocation in
this broken world as we wait for the dream of God to come
in its fullness." - Scott McKnight | Barry Jones

"The church must resurrect the incarnation of Jesus so that a new community of humanity
is borne by mission, ministry, message, and worship.' - R.E. Slater

Peter Rollins - The Rapture (Parable)

The Coming of the Lord

13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord,[d] that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with themin the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

* * * * * * * * * * * *

Theology of the Rapture 
Wikipedia link for Dispensational and Mainline views

Rapture is a term in Christian eschatology which refers to the "being caught up" discussed in 1 Thessalonians 4:16, when the "dead in Christ" and "we who are alive and remain" will be "caught up in the clouds" to meet "the Lord in the air".[1]

The term "Rapture" is used in at least two senses. In the pre-tribulation view, a group of people will be left behind on earth after another group literally leaves "to meet the Lord in the air." This is now the most common use of the term, especially among fundamentalist Christians and in the United States.[2] The other, older use of the term "Rapture" is simply as a synonym for the final resurrection generally, without a belief that a group of people is left behind on earth for an extended Tribulation period after the events of 1 Thessalonians 4:17.[3][4][5] This distinction is important as some types of Christianity never refer to "the Rapture" in religious education, but might use the older and more general sense of the word "rapture" in referring to what happens during the final resurrection.[6]

There are many views among Christians regarding the timing of Christ's return (including whether it will occur in one event or two), and various views regarding the destination of the aerial gathering described in 1 Thessalonians 4. Denominations such as Roman Catholics,[7] Orthodox Christians,[8] Lutheran Christians,[9] and Reformed Christians[10] believe in a rapture only in the sense of a general final resurrection, when Christ returns a single time. They do not believe that a group of people is left behind on earth for an extended Tribulation period after the events of 1 Thessalonians 4:17.[11]

Authors generally maintain that the pre-tribulation Rapture doctrine originated in the eighteenth century, with the Puritan preachers Increase and Cotton Mather, and was then popularized in the 1830s by John Darby.[12][13] Others, including Grant Jeffrey, maintain that an earlier document called Ephraem or Pseudo-Ephraem already supported a pre-tribulation rapture.[14]

Regardless, pre-tribulation rapture theology was popularized extensively in the 1830s by John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren,[15] and further popularized in the United States in the early 20th century by the wide circulation of the Scofield Reference Bible.[16]

* * * * * * * * * * * *

Theology of the Rapture - Theopedia


The Rapture is the popular term used to describe one perceived view of the Lord's return based on the writings of the Apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. The word "rapture" comes from the Latin rapere used by the Vulgate to translate the Greek word harpaz?, which is rendered by the phrase "caught up" in most English translations. See below:

"For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord." (1 Thess. 4:16-17, ESV)

It is the term used primarily in Dispensationalism to refer to the "catching up" of believers who are alive at the Lord's return, which they see as an event preceding the Lord's "official" second coming, and the setting up of his millennial Kingdom on earth.

Dispensational premillennialists distinguish the rapture from Christ's second coming to earth. The degree to which the rapture is secret or public is a separate issue. The timing of the rapture is associated with a final period of Tribulation anticipated by Scripture.

Criticism of a separate "rapture"

The doctrine of the rapture as an event separate from the general resurrection is a fairly recent doctrinal development within the scope of the Church's historic body of belief. Prior to 1830, most of the 'rapture texts' were regarded as referring to the General Resurrection. This was especially the case with the 1 Thessalonians 4 passage which was primarily regarded as referring to the resurrection rather than a rapture.

Virtually no prominent theologians held to this theory before Darby's influence in the 1840’s. For example, none of the great reformers, e.g. Luther^[3]^ or Calvin^[4]^, believed in a "Secret Rapture" theory. Nor did the ancient church fathers such as John Chrysostom, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Hippolytus expressly assert the theory of the pre-tribulation rapture, with the possible exception that The Shepherd of Hermas, 1.4.2 speaks of not going through the Tribulation.^[5]^

Some Reformed theologians are still favorable of using the term "rapture" but insist on making a very clear distinction between rapture as a synonym for resurrection and what Dispensationalists propose by the term, namely an escape from a yet-future tribulation period.

John Stott calls this idea "escapism" in his book Issues Facing Christians Today (2006, 4th ed.). He goes on to write that the Dispensational concept of a "secret rapture" is one of the most destructive doctrines gripping the Evangelical Church today. According to Stott, it thwarts planning, hinders social involvement, and gives Christians a gloomy outlook for the future.

Other texts used by proponents of a separate rapture, such as Matthew 24:40 - Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left., when taken in context (especially Christ's statement in Matthew 24:34) are seen by some Preterists as predictions of the Roman catapult bombardment of Jerusalem during the 42 month siege of Jerusalem from late 66-70 AD, not to a rapture. While Dispensationalists claim that the predictions in Matthew 24 are yet-future, centering on a secret-rapture, critics maintain that an exegesis of this passage reveals that this is at best unlikely, if not biblically and historically impossible (cf. The Most Embarrassing Verse In The Bible by Andrew Corbett).

* * * * * * * * * * * *

Amazon source link

Amazon Book Description

Popular notions of Christian spirituality today tend to focus on getting us out of the world or getting the world out of us. Many are looking to spirituality as a means of disengaging from this life—to experience the transcendent or discover personal wholeness. On the other hand, much of popular Christian thought seems to be about avoiding the corruption of the world by being pious and following the rules. But Jesus offers a radical model for living. As the Incarnate One who dwelt among us to accomplish the mission of God, he teaches us how to dwell in the world for the sake of the world.

If we are to become like [Jesus], we must learn what it means to live out this missional spirituality in the places we dwell. What does a Christian life deeply rooted in the logic of the Incarnation look like? Missional teacher and pastor Barry Jones shares his vision for authentic Christian spirituality focused on becoming more like Jesus. We dwell in a specific place and time in history, with unique bodies and in a world for which God has great purposes of redemption. This presence in the world should lead us to pattern our lives after the life of Jesus who was a boundary breaker, a shalom-maker, a people-keeper, and a wounded-healer.

"Jesus' life shows us what it looks like to be fully human, to be whole and holy . . . to be in the world and not of the world, to live passionately for the world and not protectively withdrawn from it," says Jones. "Allowing the logic of the Incarnation to inform our vision of the spiritual life corrects the tendency toward a self-oriented pursuit of transcendence or a negative spirituality of behavior modification and disengagement from the world." Including practical suggestions for real-life application and questions for discussion, Jones describes living a missional life from a place of deep connection with and dependence on God. Not only must we have a clear and compelling vision of the life we want to live, but we must also cultivate the spiritual disciplines necessary to live out our vision in the specific contexts of day-to-day life. We need a renewed vision of Christian spirituality that leads us to be conformed into the image of Christ who dwelt with us for us.

- Amazon

Kingdom Then, Kingdom Now

by Scot McKnight
October 9, 2014

If one keeps an ear close enough to the ground one might just hear a subtle shift at work in kingdom and heaven language. It works a bit like this: Heaven no longer matters that much but kingdom language is awesome. That language about the future kingdom has quietly become either a fictional, rhetorical utopia or not much more than a way of getting people to be more concerned about the Here and Now. And that kingdom language can get us to make this world and our country and the common good a better place.

Are you hearing this shift? If this is rhetorical only is it a trick? is it little more than projection? But if that kingdom future is real and will happen what does it say about spirituality? (Much in every way, one might mutter.)**

Barry Jones, in his new book Dwell, is out to shape a kind of spirituality that is missional and ecclesial and not just missional in the sense of justice or individualistic. So he opens with a study about the stories we live in and live into, the problem of our brokenness, and importance of the Spirit as we become the dwelling place of God but then he touches on “glimpses of the world to come.” It is there that I want to focus our conversation today.

In his section on story he speaks not about the missio Dei (the mission of God) but the visio Dei (the vision of God), and here he sees these themes: it is about God’s presence and God’s just reign and God’s peace.

Barry contends Jesus sets before us a model, a model of what a missional, incaranational spirituality looks like — and it looks like a new kind of community — and, I would add, if it looks like a new kind of community, what kind of disciplines do we need to work toward that kind of community and what kind of virtues do we need to be at the forefront if this is what it looks like?

  • Jesus was a boundary breaker. Boundary breaking is about opening the door to others.
  • Jesus was a shalom maker. Peace requires more than one person.
  • Jesus was a people keeper (not sabbath keeping but people keeping).
  • Jesus was a wounded healer.

If the kingdom is a society marked by these kinds of behaviors (seen in Jesus in how he lived), what happens to spiritual disciplines? The first thing that happens is that we realize they are not just for personal transformation but for community formation!

Jesus Christ came into the world to save the world—to secure, by his death and resurrection, the dream of God, the dream of shalom. But he also came into the world to be the prototype of a new humanity, to show us what it means to live out our human vocation in this broken world as we wait for the dream of God to come in its fullness. For us to live out a spirituality deeply informed by the logic of the incarnation—life with God for the world—is for us to pattern our lives after the life of Jesus who was a boundary breaker, a shalom maker, a people keeper, and a wounded healer. In order to pursue this repatterning of our lives, God has given us a set of embodied practices—the spiritual disciplines—through which the Spirit does his work of making us more like Jesus (99).

[I used C-Pen 3.5 to enter this quotation. Amazing new tool.]

- Scott

* note - C.Pen works by scanning non-digitized sources (library books, invoices, class notes) onto your computerized document

**Comments to Scott:

"Yes I have noticed this trend for some time now (decades actually). More recently Rob Bell picked up on this conversation some dozen years ago (Kingdom as here and now, not later) without losing sight of its hope both in this life as in the next. End Times rhetoric and Eschatological doctrines have been diminishing as the church in corollary step has been placing more emphasis on "getting out into the world and doing the work of Jesus" in Jesus' behalf. That is, the church is to daily resurrect Jesus' incarnational ministries so that they are Christianity's missiology, message, and worship. Kudos to Barry Jones for pointing these truths out and making them relevant. Thanks Scott." - Russ

continue within this series -

Historic Premillenialism v. Rapture Theologies

or continue to -

Speaking Out - Learning to Distinquish the Differences Between Islam and Islamism

Amazon source link

Book Description

Eye-opening accounts of heroic resistance to religious extremism.

In Lahore, Pakistan, Faizan Peerzada resisted being relegated to a “dark corner” by staging a performing arts festival despite bomb attacks. In Senegal, wheelchair-bound Aissatou Cissé produced a comic book to illustrate the injustices faced by disabled women and girls. In Algeria, publisher Omar Belhouchet and his journalists struggled to put out their paper, El Watan (The Nation), the same night that a 1996 jihadist bombing devastated their offices and killed eighteen of their colleagues. In Afghanistan, Young Women for Change took to the streets of Kabul to denounce sexual harassment, undeterred by threats. In Minneapolis, Minnesota, Abdirizak Bihi organized a Ramadan basketball tournament among Somali refugees to counter the influence of Al Shabaab. From Karachi to Tunis, Kabul to Tehran, across the Middle East, North Africa, South Asia, and beyond, these trailblazers often risked death to combat the rising tide of fundamentalism within their own countries.

But this global community of writers, artists, doctors, musicians, museum curators, lawyers, activists, and educators of Muslim heritage remains largely invisible, lost amid the heated coverage of Islamist terror attacks on one side and abuses perpetrated against suspected terrorists on the other.

A veteran of twenty years of human rights research and activism, Karima Bennoune draws on extensive fieldwork and interviews to illuminate the inspiring stories of those who represent one of the best hopes for ending fundamentalist oppression worldwide.

Why Bill Maher and Ben Affleck Are Both Wrong

Karima Bennoune | UC Davis law professor, author of “Your Fatwa Does

Posted: 10/06/2014 10:18 am EDT Updated: 10/06/2014 10:59 am EDT

When I watched Bill Maher -- with whom I agree about many other issues -- talk about Islam on his show "Real Time" last Friday night, I felt as though my father's life story was being erased.

According to Maher, no one in Muslim majority countries openly denounces fundamentalism. "They are afraid to speak out." Such claims deny heroic battles waged by many people of Muslim heritage against extremism. For example, Mahfoud Bennoune, my dad, was an Algerian anthropologist who risked his life throughout the 1990s jihadist violence in his country. He taught evolution despite a classroom visit from the head of the so-called Islamic Salvation Front (dad threw the guy out!).

Though later forced to flee his apartment, Mahfoud Bennoune remained in his country despite death threats. He went on to repeatedly denounce terror and the extremist ideas that underlie it. For four years, every time he went out, he did not know whether he would come home again. But he never, ever shut up because of that.

My father believed the jihadists "trample Islam underfoot in the name of jihad." A free-thinker and secularist, he remained proud of the positive aspects of his religious heritage, such as Muslim historical contributions to science, even while being honest about the dangers both radical and conservative interpretations pose. Armed only with pen and voice, he fought back. He was just one of thousands of Algerian democrats to do so then, and today thousands of others from Afghanistan to Somalia continue the same fight.

As Michael Steele -- not someone I often agree with -- correctly noted on Maher's Friday show, people like these do not get significant Western media coverage. Have you heard much about the stalwart Iraqi human rights advocate Samira Saleh Al Naimi recently killed by ISIS in her hometown Mosul after publicly excoriating their brutality? Even when they pay with their lives, people like her are often forgotten by the world.

So, I want to challenge Bill Maher -- who is right about the need to ardently defend liberal principles -- to start supporting those who do, but whose stories are untold. Suggesting the fundamentalists somehow represent Islam, as Maher did, overlooks people like Al Naimi, but also acquiesces to the claims of the repulsive ISIS would-be "Caliph" Baghdadi who wants that to be true.

In fact, many liberals and progressives in Muslim majority contexts are fighting back. While writing my book, "Your Fatwa Does Not Apply Here: Untold Stories from the Fight Against Muslim Fundamentalism," I interviewed nearly 300 of them from 30 countries -- traveling from Pakistan to Mali -- to hear how they continue to resist.

I think of Raif Badawi who faces 1000 lashes in a Saudi jail for running the Saudi Arabian Liberals website. Or those I saw protesting on the streets of Lahore against blasphemy death sentences, despite being told suicide bombers would turn up. Or the Organization of Women's Freedom in Iraq that runs a shelter for women fleeing ISIS, while simultaneously denouncing the group's misogynist atrocities (like its reported "concubine market" in Mosul).

These people deserve better than for Muslims to be painted as mainly being a bunch of fundamentalists or Islam seen as inherently extreme. For example, on Friday's show atheist writer Sam Harris opined shockingly that "Islam is the motherlode of bad ideas." How does one begin to respond to such an anti-humanist assertion?

On the same HBO program, Ben Affleck passionately defended Islam and accused both Harris and Maher of bigotry. "It's gross, it's racist... You are painting the whole religion with the same brush," he insisted. I am sincerely grateful to him for expressing the outrage many of us feel over such negative stereotypes.

However, Western liberals also make me nervous when they downplay the gravity and the scope of the challenge posed to people of Muslim heritage themselves by fundamentalism and jihadism, even as a rejoinder to discriminatory portrayals of the faith. I do agree with Maher that many Westerners in the liberal camp have been reticent to openly critique Muslim fundamentalism and have failed to grasp the desperate need to defeat it.

"ISIS couldn't fill a double-A ballpark in Charleston," Affleck suggested. Sadly, this is not true. Despite denunciations by countless laudable Muslim groups and individuals, ISIS could pack Madison Square Garden with a well-armed, and small but significant minority -- including young recruits from the West. The Pakistani Taliban have pledged allegiance to ISIS as have some jihadist groups across North Africa. Gulf governments -- that have long been supported by the U.S. -- have for years poured money into some of these same groups.

While Affleck was right to note that the U.S. has wrongfully waged wars against Muslim majority countries like Iraq, killing many more than the Westerners who have been killed by Muslim extremists, the real issue in the debate about Muslim fundamentalism is not the West vs. Islam. It is the huge number of people on the ground being slaughtered by the fundamentalists, from Afghanistan to Nigeria.

Liberals and progressives of Muslim heritage face a very grave crisis indeed, both in terms of violence and the ideology that promotes it. We need both Bill and Ben to rethink. We do not need either stereotypical generalizations, or minimizing responses to fundamentalism, however well-intentioned. What we need is a principled, anti-racist critique of Muslim fundamentalism that pulls no punches, but that also distinguishes between Islam (the diverse religious tradition) and Islamism (an extreme right wing political ideology.) We need support, understanding and to have our existence recognized.

One final notable feature of the Maher v. Affleck debate is that no women and no Muslims were on the show. New rule -- when debating what Muslims supposedly think about fundamentalism, you ought to have some people of Muslim heritage at the table.

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