Quotes & Sayings


We, and creation itself, actualize the possibilities of the God who sustains the world, towards becoming in the world in a fuller, more deeper way. - R.E. Slater

There is urgency in coming to see the world as a web of interrelated processes of which we are integral parts, so that all of our choices and actions have [consequential effects upon] the world around us. - Process Metaphysician Alfred North Whitehead

Kurt Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem says (i) all closed systems are unprovable within themselves and, that (ii) all open systems are rightly understood as incomplete. - R.E. Slater

The most true thing about you is what God has said to you in Christ, "You are My Beloved." - Tripp Fuller

The God among us is the God who refuses to be God without us, so great is God's Love. - Tripp Fuller

According to some Christian outlooks we were made for another world. Perhaps, rather, we were made for this world to recreate, reclaim, redeem, and renew unto God's future aspiration by the power of His Spirit. - R.E. Slater

Our eschatological ethos is to love. To stand with those who are oppressed. To stand against those who are oppressing. It is that simple. Love is our only calling and Christian Hope. - R.E. Slater

Secularization theory has been massively falsified. We don't live in an age of secularity. We live in an age of explosive, pervasive religiosity... an age of religious pluralism. - Peter L. Berger

Exploring the edge of life and faith in a post-everything world. - Todd Littleton

I don't need another reason to believe, your love is all around for me to see. – Anon

Thou art our need; and in giving us more of thyself thou givest us all. - Khalil Gibran, Prayer XXIII

Be careful what you pretend to be. You become what you pretend to be. - Kurt Vonnegut

Religious beliefs, far from being primary, are often shaped and adjusted by our social goals. - Jim Forest

We become who we are by what we believe and can justify. - R.E. Slater

People, even more than things, need to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed, and redeemed; never throw out anyone. – Anon

Certainly, God's love has made fools of us all. - R.E. Slater

An apocalyptic Christian faith doesn't wait for Jesus to come, but for Jesus to become in our midst. - R.E. Slater

Christian belief in God begins with the cross and resurrection of Jesus, not with rational apologetics. - Eberhard Jüngel, Jürgen Moltmann

Our knowledge of God is through the 'I-Thou' encounter, not in finding God at the end of a syllogism or argument. There is a grave danger in any Christian treatment of God as an object. The God of Jesus Christ and Scripture is irreducibly subject and never made as an object, a force, a power, or a principle that can be manipulated. - Emil Brunner

“Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh” means "I will be that who I have yet to become." - God (Ex 3.14) or, conversely, “I AM who I AM Becoming.”

Our job is to love others without stopping to inquire whether or not they are worthy. - Thomas Merton

The church is God's world-changing social experiment of bringing unlikes and differents to the Eucharist/Communion table to share life with one another as a new kind of family. When this happens, we show to the world what love, justice, peace, reconciliation, and life together is designed by God to be. The church is God's show-and-tell for the world to see how God wants us to live as a blended, global, polypluralistic family united with one will, by one Lord, and baptized by one Spirit. – Anon

The cross that is planted at the heart of the history of the world cannot be uprooted. - Jacques Ellul

The Unity in whose loving presence the universe unfolds is inside each person as a call to welcome the stranger, protect animals and the earth, respect the dignity of each person, think new thoughts, and help bring about ecological civilizations. - John Cobb & Farhan A. Shah

If you board the wrong train it is of no use running along the corridors of the train in the other direction. - Dietrich Bonhoeffer

God's justice is restorative rather than punitive; His discipline is merciful rather than punishing; His power is made perfect in weakness; and His grace is sufficient for all. – Anon

Our little [biblical] systems have their day; they have their day and cease to be. They are but broken lights of Thee, and Thou, O God art more than they. - Alfred Lord Tennyson

We can’t control God; God is uncontrollable. God can’t control us; God’s love is uncontrolling! - Thomas Jay Oord

Life in perspective but always in process... as we are relational beings in process to one another, so life events are in process in relation to each event... as God is to Self, is to world, is to us... like Father, like sons and daughters, like events... life in process yet always in perspective. - R.E. Slater

To promote societal transition to sustainable ways of living and a global society founded on a shared ethical framework which includes respect and care for the community of life, ecological integrity, universal human rights, respect for diversity, economic justice, democracy, and a culture of peace. - The Earth Charter Mission Statement

Christian humanism is the belief that human freedom, individual conscience, and unencumbered rational inquiry are compatible with the practice of Christianity or even intrinsic in its doctrine. It represents a philosophical union of Christian faith and classical humanist principles. - Scott Postma

It is never wise to have a self-appointed religious institution determine a nation's moral code. The opportunities for moral compromise and failure are high; the moral codes and creeds assuredly racist, discriminatory, or subjectively and religiously defined; and the pronouncement of inhumanitarian political objectives quite predictable. - R.E. Slater

God's love must both center and define the Christian faith and all religious or human faiths seeking human and ecological balance in worlds of subtraction, harm, tragedy, and evil. - R.E. Slater

In Whitehead’s process ontology, we can think of the experiential ground of reality as an eternal pulse whereby what is objectively public in one moment becomes subjectively prehended in the next, and whereby the subject that emerges from its feelings then perishes into public expression as an object (or “superject”) aiming for novelty. There is a rhythm of Being between object and subject, not an ontological division. This rhythm powers the creative growth of the universe from one occasion of experience to the next. This is the Whiteheadian mantra: “The many become one and are increased by one.” - Matthew Segall

Without Love there is no Truth. And True Truth is always Loving. There is no dichotomy between these terms but only seamless integration. This is the premier centering focus of a Processual Theology of Love. - R.E. Slater

-----

Note: Generally I do not respond to commentary. I may read the comments but wish to reserve my time to write (or write from the comments I read). Instead, I'd like to see our community help one another and in the helping encourage and exhort each of us towards Christian love in Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior. - re slater

Tuesday, August 9, 2011

Spirituality Requires Good Doctrine

Rethinking Spirituality Through Doctrine and Doctrine Through Spirituality
http://homebrewedchristianity.com/2011/08/07/rethinking-spirituality-through-doctrine-and-doctrine-through-spirituality/

 
As the old saying goes, “when it rains, it pours.” And somehow, the world has been pouring spirituality down on me as of late! I have to admit, I’ve rather enjoyed it. Currently, I’m reading a book by a Benedictine Sister named Joann Chittister called The Rule of Benedict, and it reinterprets the Benedictine Rule for contemporary living. Furthermore, my church will be offering itself up to Stillpoint, a wonderful organization that offer spiritual formation courses for those who want to enter more deeply and lovingly into a relationship with the divine. I will even meet with, and learn from, a spiritual advisor in the coming weeks (a position that I must honestly confess I didn’t know existed until I joined the Episcopal Church).

Despite this pouring out of spirituality in my life, I’ve noticed a theme emerge in these spiritual formation courses and opportunities that need not be there. Often times, spiritual organizations “market” (for honest lack of a better term) themselves in such a way that they will help you to get “deeper” into the divine than any silly dogmatic, doctrinal, or intellectual statement could ever bring you; they’ll help you to enter into God more personally. While the latter clause certainly presents a good goal, I simply wonder whether the former method—getting beyond doctrinal statements and properly reflective thinking—is necessary to it.

The unfortunate view that we moderns and “post-moderns” have adopted with regard to intellectuality is that we tend to think of it as somehow “neutral,” “unaffected by the world around it,” “objective,” and after truths for which we have no feeling. (“Postmoderns,” if this word means anything in particular, would generally deny that we are neutral but tend to uphold neutrality as something like an ideal for perfected reason). So we conceive of the height of intellect in terms of calculative procedures: hypothesizing, experimenting, verifying, and tabulating. We’ve defined thinking, in other words, by the empirical method that emerges from the Enlightenment and its focus on the natural sciences. I actually don’t think this is such a bad view of intellect in certain situations, but I do think it constitutes a reduction of the intellect and its ideality such that, with this notion in mind, it is no wonder that talk of getting beyond intellect for getting deeper into the divine emerges in this context.

Yet, intellectualism has not always been thought of in this way. Take Plato. For Plato, the intellect is something like another desire. That is, in the same way that a hungry stomach desires food, the intellect desires truth. Indeed, for Plato, the intellect is given over to an erotic drive to reach the Truth, the entirety of which I need not get into. The point being thus: the intellect is far from a neutral observer of things that merely conveys ideas through words to a detached mind. The intellect is passionate, directed, and “in love.” The intellect is our movement through the real to God in God’s self, at least for Plato.

We can see this Platonic principle at work, too, in a myriad of Christian mystics and thinkers, namely, the idea that the intellect does not merely hinder our relationship with the divine, but is a properly spiritual avenue for expressing that relationship. Such an understanding has been generally called “faith seeking understanding.” One need not go any further than Anselm, the founder of this saying, to understand the true context of this saying. His Monologion especially is an intellectual appropriation of a prior faith given to him by the spirit and expressed in words. It is a prayer, or an intellectual reflection on his prayers, that grasps at doctrines such as the nature of God’s Trinitarian being and Goodness, among other things.

This isn’t to say that Anselm believes himself to understood or thought through his faith fully, which is why there is a sense in which “going beyond intellect” holds some sway in spirituality. Rather than “getting beyond” intellect, I think the better way to think through the issue is in the following ways. On the one hand, one cannot properly think through the being of God without being centered in God’s being pre-cognitively; on the other hand, if one is brought into the being of God pre-cognitively, then thinking is a perfect expression of one’s spirituality and one of the major means through which we come to, worship, and exist in relationship to God.

In other words, thinking through doctrine such as the nature of the being of the God-man, the Trinity, the idea of salvation, etc., is anything but a hindrance to entering into a deeper spiritual relationship with God. I would at least claim that, as a Christian, thoughtful reflection on precisely these doctrines allow us to draw ever nearer to the divine and the divine’s love for us, found for us on all sides of the cross. The key, then, is to simply not accept the statements dogmatically—as calculative beliefs that, should we ascent to them, allow us entrance into heaven or, should we reject them, send us straight to hell. Nor should we accept such doctrines as somehow objectively and empirically verifiable, able to be found without God bringing us specifically into God’s own being such that these become meaningful doctrines in the first place. Rather, these latter two types of thinking are the ones that today’s spirituality promises to get us beyond—and rightly so!

But let’s not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Doctrinal statement is already a part of spirituality, for one can only write it and utter it with any form of seriousness by already being within the spirit.

All this said, I’m working through these spiritual disciplines and books, and I will definitely continue to do so. I’ve benefitted greatly from them. However, I would also like the chance to more deeply engage in a spirituality of the Cross, a spirituality of the Resurrection, a spirituality of Trinitarian relations or of the Spirit intimately involved with all these movements and events, even known only as such in and through them. Obviously, such spiritualities are out there, and it would probably, at most, take some light googling to find spiritual exercises focused in such doctrines. But it is worth noting that, however such spiritualities and spiritual formation courses would be put together with such an emphasis, they would need to retain a deep intellectual content to them—a content that neither takes one away from doctrinal formulation nor from spiritual depth but pushes one deeper into both.

Such spiritualities would require that we change our manner of thinking about what thinking is and is supposed to do. Rather, we would need to take seriously the statement found in the picture at the beginning of this post—a saying of Heidegger’s posted at the beginning of a trail in the Black Forest dedicated to him. The sign says something like, “in thinking is each thing long and slow.” That’s probably good spiritual advice.




John Stott - The Best of Evangelicalism



The Sunday Review
Op-Ed Columnist
Evangelicals Without Blowhards
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/31/opinion/sunday/kristof-evangelicals-without-blowhards.html


Nicholas D. Kristof

By
Published: July 30, 2011

IN these polarized times, few words conjure as much distaste in liberal circles as “evangelical Christian.”

On the Ground

Nicholas Kristof addresses reader feedback and posts short takes from his travels.

Go to Columnist Page »

Richard Perry/The New York Times

That’s partly because evangelicals came to be associated over the last 25 years with blowhard scolds. When the Rev. Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson discussed on television whether the 9/11 attacks were God’s punishment on feminists, gays and secularists, God should have sued them for defamation.

Earlier, Mr. Falwell opined that AIDS was “God’s judgment on promiscuity.” That kind of religious smugness allowed the AIDS virus to spread and constituted a greater immorality than anything that occurred in gay bathhouses.

Partly because of such self-righteousness, the entire evangelical movement often has been pilloried among progressives as reactionary, myopic, anti-intellectual and, if anything, immoral.

Yet that casual dismissal is profoundly unfair of the movement as a whole. It reflects a kind of reverse intolerance, sometimes a reverse bigotry, directed at tens of millions of people who have actually become increasingly engaged in issues of global poverty and justice.

This compassionate strain of evangelicalism was powerfully shaped by the Rev. John Stott, a gentle British scholar who had far more impact on Christianity than media stars like Mr. Robertson or Mr. Falwell. Mr. Stott, who died a few days ago at the age of 90, was named one of the globe’s 100 most influential people by Time, and in stature he was sometimes described as the equivalent of the pope among the world’s evangelicals.

Mr. Stott didn’t preach fire and brimstone on a Christian television network. He was a humble scholar whose 50-odd books counseled Christians to emulate the life of Jesus — especially his concern for the poor and oppressed — and confront social ills like racial oppression and environmental pollution.

“Good Samaritans will always be needed to succor those who are assaulted and robbed; yet it would be even better to rid the Jerusalem-Jericho road of brigands,” Mr. Stott wrote in his book “The Cross of Christ.” “Just so Christian philanthropy in terms of relief and aid is necessary, but long-term development is better, and we cannot evade our political responsibility to share in changing the structures that inhibit development. Christians cannot regard with equanimity the injustices that spoil God’s world and demean his creatures.”

Mr. Stott then gave examples of the injustices that Christians should confront: “the traumas of poverty and unemployment,” “the oppression of women,” and in education “the denial of equal opportunity for all.”

For many evangelicals who winced whenever a televangelist made the headlines, Mr. Stott was an intellectual guru and an inspiration. Richard Cizik, president of the New Evangelical Partnership for the Common Good, who has worked heroically to combat everything from genocide to climate change, told me: “Against the quackery and anti-intellectualism of our movement, Stott made it possible to say you are ‘evangelical’ and not be apologetic.”

The Rev. Jim Wallis, head of a Christian organization called Sojourners that focuses on social justice, added: “John Stott was the very first important evangelical leader to support our work at Sojourners.”
Mr. Stott, who was a brilliant student at Cambridge, also underscored that faith and intellect needn’t be at odds.

Centuries ago, serious religious study was extraordinarily demanding and rigorous; in contrast, anyone could declare himself a scientist and go in the business of, say, alchemy. These days, it’s the reverse. A Ph.D. in chemistry is a rigorous degree, while a preacher can explain the Bible on television without mastering Hebrew or Greek — or even showing interest in the nuances of the original texts.

Those self-appointed evangelical leaders come across as hypocrites, monetizing Jesus rather than emulating him. Some seem homophobic, and many who claim to be “pro-life” seem little concerned with human life post-uterus. Those are the preachers who won headlines and disdain.

But in reporting on poverty, disease and oppression, I’ve seen so many others. Evangelicals are disproportionately likely to donate 10 percent of their incomes to charities, mostly church-related. More important, go to the front lines, at home or abroad, in the battles against hunger, malaria, prison rape, obstetric fistula, human trafficking or genocide, and some of the bravest people you meet are evangelical Christians (or conservative Catholics, similar in many ways) who truly live their faith.

I’m not particularly religious myself, but I stand in awe of those I’ve seen risking their lives in this way — and it sickens me to see that faith mocked at New York cocktail parties.

Why does all this matter?

Because religious people and secular people alike do fantastic work on humanitarian issues — but they often don’t work together because of mutual suspicions. If we could bridge this “God gulf,” we would make far more progress on the world’s ills.

And that would be, well, a godsend.


I invite you to comment on this column on my blog, On the Ground. Please also join me on Facebook, watch my YouTube videos and follow me on Twitter.

**********

Rev. John Stott, Major Evangelical Figure, Dies at 90 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/28/world/europe/28stott.html?pagewanted=all
 
By WOLFGANG SAXON
Published: July 27, 2011
 
The Rev. John Stott, one of the world’s most influential figures in the spread of evangelical Christianity over the past half-century, died Wednesday in Lingfield, Surrey, in the south of England. He was 90.
The Rev. John Stott at Trinity Church in Manhattan in 2006. Mr. Stott exerted influence largely through his many books.

His death was confirmed by Suanne Camfield, a spokeswoman for his publisher, InterVarsity Press.

The religion scholar Michael Cromartie once said that if evangelicals could elect a pope, they would be likely to choose Mr. Stott. Though less known in the United States and hardly a household name outside the evangelical sphere, Mr. Stott, an author, preacher and theologian, was often compared to the Rev. Billy Graham, his American contemporary.

But while Mr. Graham’s influence is rooted in a rousing preaching style and a personal magnetism that has filled stadiums, Mr. Stott’s relied on a proliferation of books — grounded in learning but accessible to all — and the evangelical organization he founded, Langham Partnership International, named after its cradle, All Souls Church at Langham Place in London’s West End.

“We must be global Christians,” he once wrote, “with a global mission, because our God is a global God.”

Beginning at the college campus level and branching out country by country, the Langham Partnership (known as the John Stott Ministries in the United States) grew into an organization comprising 5 national and 10 regional nondenominational movements.

Before then, through the Anglican Church, Mr. Stott had led a revival of evangelical Christianity in Britain, exhorting Britons to find personal salvation by repenting sin and accepting Jesus as their savior.

But he also demanded that evangelicals look beyond liturgy and Christian tradition and remain engaged in worldly matters — “to take more responsible attitudes toward economics, the arts, politics and culture in general,” as Mark A. Noll, a University of Notre Dame professor and scholar of the movement, said in an interview in 2007.

“And perhaps most importantly,” Professor Noll added, Mr. Stott became “a patron, mentor, friend and encourager of thousands of pastors, students and laypeople from the newer Christian parts of the world.” He became a bridge, Professor Noll said, “between the West and the rising Christian world.”

Mr. Stott was dedicated to helping the poor in developing countries, what he termed the Majority World. Using royalties from his books, he set up trusts to help gifted students from the developing world earn doctorates abroad and then return to their native countries to teach in theological seminaries.

For all his fame on several continents, Mr. Stott’s travels and appearances were remarkably devoid of pomp, befitting his simple message of reason and faith and his unassuming demeanor. Those in his ministries knew him simply as Uncle John. In his later years, he lived in a two-room apartment over the garage of a London rectory, and for many years he kept a small cottage on the Welsh coast, where he did much of his prodigious writing in longhand and, until 2001, without electricity.

“Pride is without doubt the greatest temptation of Christian leaders,” Mr. Stott said in 2006 during a visit to the United States. “And I’m very well aware of the dangers of being feted and don’t enjoy it and don’t think one should enjoy it.”

Believing the college campus to be the most effective pulpit from which to preach, he frequently led weeklong evangelist meetings at universities in Australia, Asia, Africa, North America and elsewhere around the world. One event drew as many as 18,000 students. Until 2003 he was an active vice president of the International Fellowship of Evangelical Students.

“I declare myself an impenitent believer in the power of preaching,” he told an evangelical group in New York in 2006, by then a frail and stooped figure walking with a cane. “The pew cannot rise higher than the pulpit.”

Mr. Stott, a leading evangelical theologian, was regarded as the framer of the Lausanne Covenant, a declaration of the movement’s beliefs and global aspirations. Drafted in Switzerland in 1974 at an international evangelical congress, it is regarded as a 20th-century milestone of evangelicalism.

Mr. Stott was the author of about 50 books published in 65 languages. Among his best known are “Basic Christianity” (1958), “Christ the Controversialist” (1970) and “The Cross of Christ” (1986).

“Basic Christianity” alone has been translated into more than 60 languages and has sold more than 2.5 million copies, according to the John Stott Ministries, which said his books have sold more than eight million copies worldwide. His last book — he himself described it as such — was “The Radical Disciple: Some Neglected Aspects of Our Calling,” published in 2010.

“To read Stott is to see someone practicing ‘thoughtful allegiance’ to Scripture,” David Brooks wrote in The New York Times in an admiring column 1n 2004 titled, “Who Is John Stott?”

“For him, Christianity means probing the mysteries of Christ. He is always exploring paradoxes. Jesus teaches humility, so why does he talk about himself so much? What does it mean to gain power through weakness, or freedom through obedience? In many cases the truth is not found in the middle of apparent opposites, but on both extremes simultaneously.”

The books have become staples of evangelicalism, said David Neff, editor of the evangelical publication Christianity Today. “Almost anyone who is a leader in American evangelicalism has read those books and been shaped by them.”

John Robert Walmsley Stott was born in London on April 27, 1921, the youngest of three children of Sir Arnold W. Stott, a prominent physician and an agnostic, and his wife, Emily, a Lutheran who attended All Souls. His older sisters died before him. A lifelong celibate, he left no immediate survivors.

The young Mr. Stott originally intended to train for the diplomatic service, but influenced by the Christian Gospel, he changed plans while still in preparatory school, determined to enter the Anglican Church.

He graduated from Trinity College at Cambridge in 1943; transferred to Ridley Hall Theological College, also at Cambridge; and was ordained a minister in the Church of England in 1945. He started as an assistant curate at All Souls Church. After receiving a master’s degree at Cambridge in 1947, he advanced, at the age of 29, to rector of the church in 1950. When he turned rector emeritus in 1975, he moved from the rectory to a modest apartment over its garage.

The British government acknowledged his contributions in 2006 by naming him a Commander of the British Empire. He was appointed a chaplain to the queen in 1959 and served in that post until he reached retirement age in 1991. In 2005, Time magazine selected him as one of the world’s “100 Most Influential People.” He retired from the public ministry in 2007.

An avid birder and bird photographer, Mr. Stott took his binoculars and cameras on all his travels and wrote a book about the many species he encountered. Titled “The Birds Our Teachers: Biblical Lessons From a Lifelong Bird-Watcher” (1999), the book is illustrated with his own photographs.

At Mr. Stott’s death at the retirement home, his friends and associates were at his bedside, reading Scriptures and listening to Handel’s "Messiah," the All Souls Church Web site said.

“The evangelical world has lost one of its greatest spokesmen,” Mr. Graham said in a statement on Wednesday, “and I have lost one of my close personal friends and advisers. I look forward to seeing him again when I go to heaven.”

Dennis Hevesi contributed reporting


Monday, August 8, 2011

What is Emergent Christianity? Part 2


Reviewing Dr. Olson's comments on the Emerging Church or Emerging Movement has made me feel "right at home" with his passion and desire to see the best for God's people. Though we are "denominationally unrelated" and "strangers to one another" I have discovered in him a brother in the Lord willing to put aside all doctrine and conventions in order to re-discover God as God, without man's institutes or institutions. (This seems most demonstrable to me in the type of young men and women whom he has taught and discipled now serving the Lord in their many capacities). For we both have come out of backgrounds that have rigorously examined Scriptures and Church history and yet still feel the need that our studies have not been enough. Not that we would abandon our knowledge, so much as to improve our knowledge, to be more open to the times and movements allowable to the eras and insights of our day among seeking men and women. And in what Dr. Olson and others like Gibbs and Bolger have expressed, I like the smell of it, the heartbeat of it, the taste of it, at least in its generalizations and thematic expressions.

As reported, the Emerging Church Movement crosses all denominational lines and at its center is its reaction to either, too rigid or, too progressive, expressions of the Christian faith. For biblical faith is neither (1) restrictive - as proposed by modern day evangelicalism, nor (2) so loose and amorphous as to be useless, subjective, endlessly open-ended - as proposed by liberalism and mainline denominations. Emergent Christianity senses that it must "put aright" the extremes of conservative-and-liberal-expressions of Scriptures, God, Worship and Faith in general. (This was also observed by NT Wright in his article on the "Authority of the Scriptures" as earlier reported on this blog).

Secondly, the Emerging Church Movement is the POSITIVE expression of its faith shown below in its characterizations 1-5 as witness by Dr. Olson and concurred to by myself. For both our personal and corporate faith must be (1) self-critical and introspective; (1b) non-conformist to legalistic religious conventions; (2) separate from the world (or world era) that we live within (whether modern or postmodern; while at the same time utilizing the good found within those eras); (3) open to the Spirit of God's leading and impress upon our lives, thoughts and heart as it flows in line with the Scriptures (a most critical point, I might add); (4) a faith that is spiritually transformative and reformative; (5) and lives and breathes within communal worship, ministry, acts of charity, outreach, and very life itself.

This to me is what Emergent Christianity is, as I believe we can find in many churches from the ages past - regardless of label or distinction - and we pray to find in churches future. These are some (but not all) of the spiritual hallmarks of Christ's living body, his bridegroom and beloved, what we call the Church universal, and of His remnant people we call believers and followers of Jesus.

- skinhead

**********

More Thoughts on the Emerging Churches Movement

by Roger Olson
August 7, 2011

First, is it even really a movement? If so, it’s a very amorphous one!

Second, I strongly recommend that people wanting to discuss the Emerging Church Movement (or, ECM) (or conversation or network or whatever you want to call the phenomenon) read this: Emerging Churches: Creating Christian Community in Postmodern Cultures by Eddie Gibbs and Ryan K. Bolger (Baker, 2005). It’s the best book I know of on the ECM; it’s written on the basis of exhaustive research including extended interviews with leading emergent/emerging church leaders.

Today I will be on Doug Pagitt’s radio program out of Minneapolis. I’m not sure what we will talk about, but I’m glad to be interviewed–especially if I can sneak in a word or two about my forthcoming book Against Calvinism! :) Of course, most of you know Pagitt is a leader looked up to by many in the ECM. I have been privileged to get to know him over the past several years. We don’t see eye-to-eye on some things, but I appreciate his search for authenticity in contemporary Christianity and church life.

As Gibbs and Bolger make abundantly clear, the ECM is not monolithic; it is a movement made up of very different congregations with a few exemplary things in common. I would say one of those is a determination to be authentic with Christianity and church life and to discard all that is merely traditional (“traditionalism”) and institutional (focus on survival for its own sake).

Gibbs and Bolger offer several brief, “nutshell” definition-descriptions of emerging churches. Here is one: “emerging churches are missional communities arising from within postmodern culture and consisting of followers of Jesus who are seeking to be faithful in their place and time.” (p. 28) Remember that no single definition-description is going to fit all emerging churches equally or in the same way. And there are certainly non-ECM congregations that would fit that description.

The first congregation I remember reading about that was described as “emerging” or “emergent” was Minneapolis’ Spirit Garage. (Google it!). Spirit Garage began in the mid-1990s as a mission to Uptown by the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America. There’s proof that SOME emerging churches are definitely rooted in the so-called “mainline” of American religion. (However, I think there’s something anomalous about anyone involved in the ECM calling anything “mainline” because if being postmodern means anything it means rejecting the very idea of “mainline” anything. “Mainline” is never a merely descriptive label; it always carries the connotation that what is so described is normative.)

Another early emergent church I encountered was House of Mercy which began at First Baptist Church of St. Paul (where I was a member for some years)–an American Baptist congregation. eventually left that church and denomination and has since associated itself more (if anything) with the Presbyterian tradition community. Like Spirit Garage, House of Mercy began in the mid-1990s and gained a lot of attention because of its willingness to experiment and embrace non-traditional forms of Christian life and worship. It attracted many young (and not so young) Christians interested in the arts.

Then, of course, emergent churches exploded across the American and British landscape. (I’m not implying that those two emerging churches were somehow the “originals” of which everything else is copy; I’m just saying I first became aware of the ECM through them.)

Many of my students have gone on to pastor or co-pastor or somehow lead emerging churches around the country. I have spoken in a number of those and at retreats and gatherings of emerging church leaders and church planters.

One things is painfully obvious to anyone who knows much about the ECM: It is very difficult to generalize about these congregations. As soon as you say anything about the movement as a whole you’ll encounter someone or something that doesn’t fit the description. However, as Gibbs and Bolger helpfully point out, certain common features or family resemblances TEND to be true of MOST of these congregations and ministries.

Again, I strongly recommend that people interested in understanding what these common features and family resemblances are read Emerging Churches by Gibbs and Bolger. (Yes, I know there are other books on this phenomenon, but I have found this one most helpful for now.)

I think there is a general fear among some observers that the ECM will fail to make the kind of impact it could have IF its leading spokespersons simply ally it too closely with already existing Christian movements whether conservative evangelical or so-called “mainline liberal” (or establishment progressive Christianity). One of the promises of the ECM is to develop a form of Christianity and church life that is constantly and forever adaptable which implies frequent, ongoing internal examination and openness to especially internal critique.

One of the failures of traditional forms of Christianity is being closed to criticism and calls for change. Conservative evangelicalism tends to be convinced it is already wholly right (or was at some point in the past). It at least appears impervious to even internal constructive criticism of its traditions. So-called mainline, progressive, liberal Christianity tends also to be convinced it is or has been wholly right–at least about its basic methods and approaches that have to do with adapting to modernity.

If the ECM offers anything new it has to be AT LEAST forging a third alternative (not necessarily a “via media”) to these “right” and “left” wings of contemporary Christianity.

Some emerging churches and leaders work out of a generally evangelical background. Some work out of a generally so-called “mainline” background. Hopefully, however, none of them will succumb to the temptation to align themselves too closely with the established hierarchies and traditions of these movements. Hopefully they will keep a critical “distance,” as it were, and refuse even financial support from anyone who requires them to toe a party line. Hopefully they will resist the subtle temptation even unconsciously to adopt the habits of either the “left” or the “right” of contemporary church life and thought.

I am of the opinion that SOME emerging churches and their leaders HAVE ALREADY succumbed to the temptation to develop a veneer of being different (avant garde, radical, etc.) while adopting the ways of conservative evangelicalism beneath the surface. SOME others have succumbed to the same temptation with regard to so-called mainline, progressive, liberal Protestantism. What I mean is, these emerging congregations (I’m not going to name them here–if the shoe fits, wear it or put it on someone you know!) LOOK very non-conformist but are actually very conformist in their beliefs and practices beneath the surface. In other words, just wearing a certain kind of glasses and using PowerPoint during sermons and mouthing naughty words occasionally DOES NOT make you emergent! Neither does adopting Celtic spirituality (whatever that is, exactly!) or worshiping in a dark space with scores of candles and a dozen TV monitors. Being truly emergent MUST mean something more than these surface features put on top of either conservative or progressive foundations. These CAN be present, of course, but what makes a congregation or mission or organization truly “emergent” MUST be below the surface at the deep level of commitment.

1 - I would argue that one such commitment MUST be self-criticism and willingness frequently to change combined with rejection of hierarchical models of leadership or absolutizing of tradition or being new and different for their own sakes.

2 - Another commitment MUST be rejection of modernity as the foundation or norm for belief and life and mission and service. Both conservatives and progressives have (often unwittingly and even against their own intentions) adopted modernity as the cultural norm even for Christianity and church life.

3 - What will that mean? It must mean an openness to new things the Spirit of God wants to do among his people that do not fit the modern box. It must mean a refusal of control, manipulation and orderliness.

4 - It must mean a refusal to reduce Christianity to either doctrine or ethics and a determination to discover it as transformative spirituality that is not privatized or individualized.

5 - It must mean attempts to discover the meaning of true community without confining structures, rules and protocols that put these before persons and relationships.




Sunday, August 7, 2011

Devising a Meaning for Architecture in Helsinki's "Escapee"


Music Video for Architecture in Helsinki's 'Escapee'
Directed by Marcus Soderlund
Produced by Jules de Chateleux
Taken from the 2011 album 'Moment Bends'


 * * * * * * * * * * *


My First Impressions
by R.E.Slater


When first watching the music video Escapee by Architecture in Helsinki I only heard light-hearted beats and saw a young boy in the joys of peddling a bright red bicycle with bouncing blue balloons tied to its frame flying behind him in the jet streams of his joyous ride. Right then I new I was in for a metaphorical ride as the video cut and panned between two different adult figures intermixed with the band itself as our tour guide. Was I listening to the heartbeats of first love by a young man rethinking his first experiences (adult 1) or to an older adult (adult 2) weighed down with the inner turmoil of lost dreams unrealized and undiscovered much later in life? Or perhaps watching the first really awakening dreams of childhood's youthful promise that could fill the constellations of heaven above with its own weightless joys and spirited gladness? Or even a deposed life succumbed to the ravages of earth-bound realities believing age and maturity to have shredded childhood's distant hopes and beliefs? Someone who was destined no longer to ride the brighter boyhood dreams of youth but the lonely mechanistic backstreets and forgotten alleyways of unhappy griefs and dooms forever lost and forlorn in the decorum of societal norms?

I then wondered, "Is it so simple a thing to escape from this world's dark clutches of unbelief that would bind us forever in its darker beliefs of uncertainty?" Or can music, love, faith and a reconstitution that comes from God re-capture, and re-vitalize, our darkened lives with magical bikes and flying balloons. Nifty blue parkas and boyish haircuts. Or even the indescribable joys of riding the old, familiar passageways with a newer outlook on life? That refuses to sit in the metaphysical chairs of dismay and disappointment but would rise up to discover again the bright red bicycles of our childhood fantasies... yet this time bound within the surer bonds of God's love and embrace. Not the delusions of our own strength, or life's bleakness, nor even a darker world's many vaunted vanities and overwhelming temptations! A space where we might learn again to ride the fair streets of childhood as we once had been created to ride by our Creator God - especially with gay blue balloons flying behind our boundless imaginations! And with gladdened hearts released to the realities of promise in faith's majesty found only in a Creator's heart and soul as He had once made us to be and experience!

Here then is the inescapable reality of life's enigmas and mysteries that God loves us and in that love we will find our creative being and purpose as we become escapees from this life's heartbreaks and disillusionments. So then, break off the chains and locks of unbelief, and release that metaphorically-redemptive bike onto the back streets where we first discovered to ride from beneath heaven's home and across life's steely skies to vividly burn with faith's living hopes of unhesitating belief in personal renewal grounded in the God of our boundless reality!

R.E. Slater
August 7, 2011


Architecture in Helsinki - Escapee




Escapee Lyrics

This escapee was never gonna stay
On the unfamiliar building on the rooftop
Where we laid right off

Constellation shined and paved the way
Temptation's not a word
Until we've let it go astray

And I want to lead it
He want to lead it
Whoa, ho, ho

Like old tower over you all day
All darkness can be difficult like needles in the hay
I need to flick the switch and show you how to hide
And love is not the answer if you're takin' me for a ride

For a ride

This escapee was never gonna stay
On the night it'd be too typical to be stuck in a day
And while the competition's overcome what may
Temptation's not a word until we've let it go astray

I want to leave it
He want to lead it
Whoa, ho, ho

Unescaping, you're escaping

Unescaping
You're takin' me for a ride
For a ride
Unescaping, you're escaping

For a ride
Unescaping, you're escaping
For a ride
Unescaping, you're escaping
Unescaping, you're escaping



Send "Escapee" Ringtone to your Cell



More About the Band
 

Musica Reviews
REVIEW 1

http://www.thevine.com.au/music/clip-reviews/architecture-in-helsinki's-'escapee'-and-'moment-bends'-track-by-track-_-watch20110612.aspx
by Marcus, on Jun 12 2011

Architecture in Helsinki's second single from their most recent pop slab Moment Bends, comes in the form of album track No. 2 'Escapee'. Filmed in Belgium, the clip was directed by Marcus Soderlund (The xx, Mike Snow) and features the band performing in damp suburbia, as a backdrop to a father/son tale involving forbidden bicycle riding, blue balloons and sweet parkas.


MILANO ACOUSTICS: Architecture in Helsinki - Escapee 


The band have also just released a mini-EPK type thing for Moment Bends. It consists of three band members—Cameron Bird, Kellie Sutherland and Gus Franklin—staring down the barrel and riffing on various word games connected to each track from their new album. Non sequiturs such as "it's as if I'm asleep on a raft floating across a river towards a glowing power station" and "a non space where magic and perfect moments can happen" litter proceedings, along with small visual hiccups and quirks. Meaning, it's good—if you're a fan. Or just really like sky blue.
REVIEW 2

http://www.eatingthebeats.com/2011/06/drinking-tunes-summer-beer-music/

On their recent LP Moment Bends, Architecture in Helsinki shed some of their super-twee roots in favor of pure dance-pop — and it’s a great fit. “Escapee” is perfect for a summer party, with lyrics about looking at constellations on a rooftop, getting out the dark, and escaping.

REVIEW 3 
http://www.inanabsolutworld.pedestrian.tv/pop-culture/news/watch-architecture-in-helsinki-escapee/44381.htm

Architecture In Helsinki's insightful track-by-track breakdown of Moment Bends calls this "the Nescafe Blend 43 moment on the record. We just added water and there was an instant buzz.". Tasty. Frontman Cameron Bird also associates this track with dolphins. Sadly no water mammals appear in the song's Marcus Soderlund directed video but we'll always settle for hazy bike rides with popular culture's most romanticized escapee not named Andy Dufresne, the adolescent runaway. Pedal til you legs fall off little man.

REVIEW 4 

ESCAPEE This was the Nescafe Blend 43 moment on the record. We just added water and there was an instant buzz. Sometimes songs happen in 10 minutes like some sort of crazy chemical reaction, 'Escapee' was as instantaneous and un-complicated as songs happen in our our world. Probably why it still makes me feel so good when I hear it! For some reason, every time I hear this it makes me think of dolphins.

REVIEW 5


Melbourne natives Architecture In Helsinki released their fourth album Moment Bends in April, and is already being talked about as one of the best modern pop albums of the year. Recorded over a two year period, Moment Bends is in large part “A dialogue with the dance floor, without being a slave to any particular rhythm.” The just released video for their song “Escapee” (directed by Marcus Soderlund, who has recently been creating great videos for The xx, Miike Snow, and jj) is a toe-tapping, fun track that the band says “was as instantaneous and un-complicated as songs happen in our world. Probably while it makes us feel so good when we hear it!” It’s makes us feel pretty good too. Enjoy!

REVIEW 6

A lot went into writing your favorite song--but how much do you really know about it? This week Cameron Bird and Kellie Sutherland of Architecture in Helsinki delve into hidden vocals, pesky guitar solos, and first-time key changes in their new song, "Contact High." (Check out Eric Grandy's take on the song here ).

Song: Contact High
From album: Moment Bends
Release date: May 2011
When it was written: January 2010
Where it was written: In our studio, Buckingham Palace
Why it was written: Is this a trick question?
Favorite line in the song: There is a hidden backing vocal that rips off Mutt Lange/Shania Twain in the last chorus.
Which part was the hardest to come up with? Getting the right flow in guitar solos are always difficult!
If you could go back and change anything, what would it be? Nothing. We spent a month on it in the studio so we wouldn't have any regrets.
Odd fact about song: It's the first-ever key change in an AIH song
What inspired the song: The magic of the natural universe
The overall meaning of the song: The chemistry between two brand-new lovers

REVIEW 7


Short Biography
Currently in the midst of a massive tour encompassing the USA, Russia, Europe and the UK, modernist pop quintet Architecture in Helsinki are thrilled to announce their most extensive Australian tour in years. After stunning crowds on the Groovin' The Moo tour and a brief run of headline dates in May, including a dazzling show at the Opera House as part of Vivid, AIH will be trekking across Australia over August and September.

The band's second single Escapee has just been released from their pop opus ‘Moment Bends', accompanied by a beautiful video directed by Marcus Soderlund (The XX, Miike Snow) in Belgium. As effortless and infectious as a pop song can be, Escapee was the last track written and recorded during the albums' two year gestation. Frontman Cameron Bird says, "Sometimes songs happen in 10 minutes like some sort of crazy chemical reaction, 'Escapee' was as instantaneous and un-complicated as songs happen in our world. Probably why it still makes me feel so good when I hear it!".

Supported by triple j and Channel [V], the tour will see the band hitting up most capital cities, along with rare performancesin Cairns, Wollongong, and Newcastle. Don't miss this chance to see why the world's falling in love with ‘Moment Bends' and Architecture in Helsinki's transcendently joyous live shows.

In-depth Biography
The Australian indie pop ensemble Architecture in Helsinki hail from Fitzroy, Melbourne, and have counted multi-instrumentalists Cameron Bird, James Cecil, Gus Franklin, Isobel Knowles, Jamie Mildren, Sam Perry, Tara Shackell, and Kellie Sutherland among their ranks. The band's musical arsenal is even bigger than its roster, featuring instruments as diverse as analog synths and samplers, glockenspiel, tuba, clarinet, and recorder along with the more predictable drums, bass, and guitar. Architecture in Helsinki began playing in 2000, crafting a mix of indie, electronic, and pop that they recorded and occasionally performed live. The collective began recording its debut album, Fingers Crossed, in 2002 in a variety of places ranging from beach houses to proper studios; Bar/None released the album in spring 2004. Following a hectic year of touring and recording, the group turned around another album, In Case We Die, in 2005. The release drew glowing reviews, fixing Architecture in Helsinki as one of that year's most promising and idiosyncratic indie acts. Frontman and primary songwriter Bird relocated to Brooklyn a year later, where he and producer James Cecil put the finishing touches on the group's third effort, Places Like This. The album was released on Polyvinyl in 2007. Bird returned to Australia and the group, now a quintet including Perry, Mildren, Sutherland, and Franklin, released the That Beep single in 2008. They recorded their fourth album in their studio, Buckingham Palace, over the course of two years. The result was Moment Bends, which was released in early 2011. ~ Heather Phares, Rovi

REVIEW 8
http://lamusicblog.com/2011/06/video/architecture-in-helsinki-release-video-for-escapee/

by Kristin Houser, on June 2nd, 2011
Category: Video

Architecture in Helsinki’s music perfectly suits my dancing style (I flatter myself to think there is any “style” to my dancing, but that’s beside the point). Not too fast, not too fancy, just perfectly infectious melodies over beats that keep my feet moving without knocking me off them. “Escapee,” the third single from the band’s 2011 release Moment Bends, is perfectly in keeping with this trend, and the video for the track, which features a red bike, blue balloons, and some understated ’80s-influenced outfits and hairstyles, is pretty awesome too. 

Friday, August 5, 2011

Andrea Bocelli - The Lord's Prayer



In concert with the Mormon Tabernacle Choir,
Salt Lake City, Utah
Christmas Concert, Dec 2009










Wednesday, August 3, 2011

Can the emergent church movement take constructive criticism?


by Roger Olson
August 2, 2011

I’m sure it can. However, I’m made to wonder when I see some of the responses to Brandon Morgan’s guest post here (of about a week ago -cf. http://relevancy22.blogspot.com/2011/07/emergent-church-movement-challenged-by.html) and my follow up post. Brandon, a leader of the Void Collective and known to be a participant in the emergent movement, dared to raise some questions about the direction in which at least some emergent church leaders are taking the movement.

One well-known emergent leader responded very defensively at his blog. I think he put the worst spin possible on Brandon’s and my questions. And he didn’t really answer those questions.
I know Brandon’s intention (and I hope mine as well) was to create dialogue about the direction of portions of the emergent church movement; it was not to express “disappointment” so much as to urge caution and clarification.

One would hope that, of all religious movements, the emergent movement would be open to internal, constructive criticism framed in the form of questions (which were not merely rhetorical). In fact, it seems to me one of the hallmarks of emergent Christianity is self-criticism. Brandon is part of the movement. I am a sympathizer. (I wouldn’t say I’m part of it as I am a member of a fairly traditional moderate Baptist church.) Surely it’s okay for a participant in the movement who has demonstrated his status through helping found and lead the Void Collective (mentioned by the New York Times in connection with emergent Christianity!) to raise constructive criticisms and invite conversation about them. If not, and if the only response is defensiveness, then that raises serious questions about the movement’s distinctiveness.

I had hoped that some leaders of the emergent movement would respond here so dialogue could take place about the questions Brandon raises. Instead, so far, the leaders Brandon (and I) queries have only responded defensively at their own blogs. (I am sure I may have missed some more positive responses elsewhere, but why not here?)

One of my main qualms about traditional churches (denominations, congregations, institutions) is that the leaders tend to close ranks and shut off even constructive criticism. One thing I hope will be true of the emergent movement is the opposite–openness to constructive criticism and willingness to consider the possibility that it needs course adjustment from time to time.


Monday, August 1, 2011

The God of Creation - Why Would God Use 4.6 to 6.2 Billion Years to Create the Earth?

The God of Creation:
Narrative, Hermenuetics, Theology and Creative Evolution

I would refer to N.T. Wright's very theologic and expansive article on The Authority of the Bible (http://relevancy22.blogspot.com/2011/07/nt-wright-how-can-bible-be.html) for explanation as to why God uses process, history and human events to accomplish his redemptive plan for creation. It gets back to my way of thinking of understanding the importance of a literal bible using the historical-critical method of hermeneutic (sic, stories that actually happened!) over the supposition that the bible is compose of ancient mythological texts and fanciful characters. Because ancient biblical history means nothing without the stories (narratives) of God's people - in their failures, hardships, pre-eminence, struggles, lusts, sin, blessings, prayers, broken hearts and spirits. It is within these historical stories that we can find our redemptive relevancy to our present and God's  eternal presence. With his faithfulness, protection, judgments and merciful covenants made with his people. And with all of the historicity found in the midst of our yesterdays, todays and tomorrows clearly in God' view. And when we amass the Bible's very personal,  tribal, or national narratives together we will then discover the much larger themes of biblical meta-narratives that begin to set forth to us the hundreds of theologies we find of God and ourselves - who he is, what he is doing, why he is doing what he is doing, who we are, what our purpose is, our hope is, and our end is - that we may relate to. For without narrative - without process, history and human events - we, as symbolic, visual, linguistic human beings, would not comprehend the Holy Spirit's directive mission of the Father and the Son in judging and remaking creation from sin and evil to complete redemption, orderliness, peace and harmony to the Godhead Three reconciling all things back to Himself.

Otherwise, when we come to the question of time - and lots of it, in the evolutionary model of creation - we discover how important it is to ask the right questions that would give us plenty to talk about as finite beings limited in our temporal footprints upon God's vast and cosmic creation. A creation that is unconstrained by time and space, distance and mass, by either quantum forces or quantum dimensions. For it is the very Creator God himself who is the Big Bang of our lives. The One whom will conquer time and space, the distances and forces of our spiritual lives in order to regain what sin has disrupted and put to ruin; who will put an end to the evil that would continue to mar his holy creation. Jesus' sacrificial atonement is God's redemptive Big Bang that will overcome all willing human souls, restoring order and harmony to sinful hearts fled from the Lover-of-our-souls unto the outer fringes of self-made hells, empty and lost even to ourselves. As the wonders of the universe would overwhelm us as we gaze up into the black nightly heavens, so too are the wonders of our souls to the very God who gazes back into us, into our thoughts and imaginations, our heart and minds, who knows our inner being and seeks to reclaim us back into His holy fellowship. The fellowship of the Three-in-One and One-in-Three. For He is the Alpha and Omega of our created beings; the Beginning and the End of our hearts, our souls, our spirits, our minds and bodies; He is our First and our Last and there is none other God but the great I AM who speaks "peace be still, know ye Thy God."

- skinhead

**********


The God of Creative Evolution:
Why Would God Use 4.6 to 6.2 Billion Years?
http://musingsonscience.wordpress.com/2011/07/19/why-would-god-use-4-6-billion-years/

by rjs5
posted July 19, 2011

There are a number of comments and questions that come up repeatedly in the discussion of science and faith. One of the issues raised often is the question of time. Why would God take 9 billion years to create a universe ready for the earth and for life? Why would God use 4.6 to 6.2 billion years to create life leading to humans on this earth? [And for that matter, why would God use 14.5 billion years to create the universe or the cosmos that we live in? - skinhead]

Ben Witherington, Amos Professor of New Testament at Asbury Theological Seminary, prolific writer and blogger, was at the Pepperdine Christian Scholars conference last month. He was there for a review and discussion of his textbook New Testament Rhetoric, but the conference also featured lectures by Francis Collins and John Polkinghorne on science and faith. Dr. Witherington commented on this conference on his blog last week: The Malibu Blues – Dispelling the Beach Boy’s Myths. OK the post was not really on the conference per se … but the opening paragraph was. And it sets up the question I would like to pose today.
So I go to Pepperdine for the Christian scholars conference and I run into this other alumnus from my period at Carolina—- Francis Collins. I’m sure you’ve heard of him. Turns out he became a Christian while he was there, and in fact so did I. So picture us singing the UNC fight song at the science and faith conference. Anyway, he presented an awesome powerpoint lecture on genetic research and its ability to help us cure diseases, and he also talked about creation and evolution in a helpful and non-confrontational way. I was still left wondering why in the world the God who can raise Jesus from the dead in a nano-second would need or bother to set the clock to millions of years until the creation process worked itself up to homo sapiens. It doesn’t really compute.
Do you find it troubling that God used time, massive stretches of time, to achieve his purpose?
Does this raise questions?

This comment by Dr. Witherington was picked up and addressed in the comments where Jonathan and Justin B. responded. First Jonathan:
Regarding the “resurrection in a nanomillennia of history before sending the redeemer. The second coming could have happened more or less immediately, but again God seems to be working over millennia, preparing for that.
“I was still left wondering why in the world the God who can raise Jesus from the dead in a nano-second would need or bother to set the clock to millions of years until the creation process worked itself up to homo sapiens. It doesn’t really compute.”
I don’t think that’s a strike against evolution, though. God doesn’t seem concerned with doing something because we feel He should have done it faster. The same God who raised Jesus from the dead also waited a very long time to send His Son into the world at all.
Dr. Witherington responded to these comments:
Justin I disagree with this analogy. God waited a few thousand years to send his Son, and in between lots was happening God was involved with, like the Exodus or the monarchy. This is no comparison to the apparent millions of years of development leading up to homo sapiens. It really doesn’t make much sense.
God used and uses time. I agree with Jonathan and Justin here – God used and uses time. He used time to form Israel, he used time to bring us to the point of the incarnation, crucifixion, and resurrection, and he is using time to move from the incarnation to the new creation, the new heavens and the new earth. We wonder why God worked as he did and is continuing to work as he does. Why did two devout Christian mothers in our church die of cancer this last year, leaving husbands and 6 children between them from elementary school to high school? Why would God use 9 billion years to produce the earth, 4 billion years to produce hominids and something like 140 million years to bring homo sapiens up to the point of culture and community leading to temples, farming, and civilization? To something like Gobeckli Tepe? (Dr. Witherington has a nice series on this site: One, Two, Three, Four – I envy his travels.)

Why didn’t God simply create the new heavens and the new earth? After all decay and sin will have no place in the new creation. If God can do it then why not now? Why not simply start with the ultimate goal? These why questions are necessary as we ponder the majesty of God, his creation, and his interaction with his people. But ultimately we cannot reason ourselves to an answer. What we can do is look at what God did do, the way he creates, the way he interacts with his people and move forward.

When we look at the evidence there is no real doubt. God used long stretches of time create the earth. He used long stretches of time and evolutionary processes to create humans on the earth. He used millenia to bring us to the present. We look at the present, we look at the past, we wonder why … but it does little good to argue against the evidence based on our limited expectation of what God should have done, or what we would have done had we been in the position.

What do you think? Do you agree with Dr. Witherington?

Do the long stretches of time in cause you to wonder?

As a technicality… a nanosecond (10-9 seconds), for some things, is a long time. Electrons move in attoseconds (10-18 seconds), atoms in femtoseconds (10-15 seconds). Light travels a foot in a nanosecond. “Instantaneous” is at least as many orders of magnitude (factors of 10) less than nanosecond as nanosecond is less than second. I don’t think the resurrection was instantaneous – it took time.

And, called to mind by the rest of Dr. Witherington’s post … Surfin’ USA:




If you wish to contact me directly you may do so at rjs4mail[at]att.net
If you have comments please visit Why Would God Use 4.6 Billion Years? at Jesus Creed